Abortion?

[unmissingpiece]

@Horsebot Why should the baby be punished for something that is the fault of the rapist? How do you define human life? It may sound outrageous or dumb, but babies are NOT scientifically proven to be "conscious."
http://www.scientificamerican.com/artic ... ness-arise

And the trauma post-abortion is very real. Pressure from outside sources may result in a woman giving in and aborting, only to regret it immensely afterwards. (possibly leading to suicide (6-7x more likely than women who give birth, 3-4 times more likely than the average woman their age), depression, and PTSD)

Partial birth abortions? Can anyone agree to those? What about infanticide?

Please don't call me retarded for a stance on a topic. Abortion is some cases are reasonable and understandable, but I think they lead to more damage at times.

[unmissingpiece]

Why should the baby be punished for something that is the fault of the rapist?

wrong question
"why should the woman be punished for something that is the fault of the rapist?" is mor accurate
and as several of us already said, there is no baby yet

And the trauma post-abortion is very real.

No, it's not
Trauma for being forced to carry on with an unwanted pregnancy is

Pressure from outside sources may result in a woman giving in and aborting, only to regret it immensely afterwards.

As you yourself point out, this is just a speculation

Partial birth abortions?

"Sex selective abortions" are called - again, several of us already said we are "pro-choice" not "pro-abortion"

What about infanticide?

eh???

Partial birth abortions: http://www.ewtn.com/library/issues/partbirt.txt
@Trauma q, Suicide rates are higher, PASS (post abortion stress sydrome) has been recognized by the APA.
No baby? What makes premature babies human and 9 month fetuses cells?
Infanticide: Killing newborns.

[unmissingpiece]

@Horsebot Why should the baby be punished for something that is the fault of the rapist? How do you define human life? It may sound outrageous or dumb, but babies are NOT scientifically proven to be "conscious."
http://www.scientificamerican.com/artic ... ness-arise

And the trauma post-abortion is very real. Pressure from outside sources may result in a woman giving in and aborting, only to regret it immensely afterwards.

Partial birth abortions? Can anyone agree to those? What about infanticide?

Please don't call me retarded for a stance on a topic. Abortion is some cases are reasonable and understandable, but I think they lead to more damage at times.

I don't give a diddly fuck about the "baby" because there is no fucking baby. It's a clump of cells. Fuck the shitty, non-existent baby. I assure you, it will never know it was aborted because "it" isn't a human being. I care about the victim here -- the woman who was raped and impregnated. You want something that causes trauma? That's as traumatic as it gets. I don't see how anybody can possibly try to justify forcing a rape victim to carry her rapist's seed for nine months and give birth to his child. That's beyond heartless. Religiously conservative legislators and protesters trying to punish those women only goes to show how little compassion is in mainstream Christianity. If abortion is murder, what about condoms and male masturbation? I mean, I jerked off today. Do you think I killed a baby? That sperm could have gone in a woman, but it didn't. My potential son or daughter was wiped onto a tissue and thrown in the trashcan. I wish there had been a woman involved, but my sad personal life is a subject for a different day.

Oh, and infanticide GOAT. I fucking love that shit.

If a woman decides to undergo an abortion for reasons of rape, that's understandable, of course. Rape is horrific. It's justifiable and if she chooses to go through with it, then I'm not going to say it's wrong. But will the added trauma of an abortion necessarily help? By hurting the fetus, you're likely to hurt the mother, who may blame herself later on. (even though it's not her fault).

I'm not Christian, either. I don't really have a stance on condoms, but (from a biological perspective) the moment of life begins at conception, sperm are not separate organisms/entities. Sperm are cells the same way our skin cells are, they're a part of us. But an embryo is a separate human.

[Hadez]

If a woman decides to undergo an abortion for reasons of rape, that's understandable, of course. Rape is horrific. It's justifiable and if she chooses to go through with it, then I'm not going to say it's wrong.

I already said why you can't just let some people do it and make it illegal for everyone else. Either everyone can, or everyone can't.

But will the added trauma of an abortion necessarily help? By hurting the fetus, you're likely to hurt the mother, who may blame herself later on. (even though it's not her fault).

You keep clinging to this because it's honestly the only solid point you have. I can give you your trauma point. Bravo. But not only is this "PASS" thing not guaranteed to happen to everyone, it's also just one "issue" compared to others. Before every abortion you make it so the would-be mother has to have some kind of lecture from the doctor. Here, he spills all the beans about the what ifs you mention. At that point she weighs the pros and cons according to her situation and makes a decision. I see nothing wrong with this. Not only that, but this might at a guilt trip to the losers that only want to abort because they did something stupid. But don't rob someone of their chance at happiness if they haven't done anything wrong. I can give countless scenarios of good reasons to abort vs your one reason (two if you count to misunderstanding of biology, which I explain below).

I'm not Christian, either. I don't really have a stance on condoms, but (from a biological perspective) the moment of life begins at conception, sperm are not separate organisms/entities. Sperm are cells the same way our skin cells are, they're a part of us. But an embryo is a separate human.

This is where you and all the other "pro lifers" get it wrong. When researchers say that life begins at conception, they are being asked strictly for the technicality of it. "Is this 'thing' technically 'living'?" They're not asked if it's a baby, an infant, a child, your daughter, your nephew, etc... Do you know why they say it's living? Because of the same reason grass is living. When you walk out on your lawn and let your dog shit on the grass, do you feel bad? Do you think the grass wanted to get shit on? Of course not, because the grass can't want. Grass doesn't have self awareness. You don't feel bad when you slaughter every blade of grass with your lawn mower, do you? "Pro lifers" have taken this technicality and spun it to mean what you want. Technically a tomato is a fruit but you bet your ass everyone in the world is still calling that shit a vegetable.

[unmissingpiece]

^ You have good points with the legalizing issue.

Depending on which study/report/article you look at, scientists are divided between when a baby develops self awareness. Some say newborns have some sense of self awareness, while others say babies don't develop a sense of self awareness until around one years old. If human awareness is the determining factor of when human life beguns, than infanticide comes into play and things get hazy.

Don't get me wrong-- some of the most twisted things I've read are when excessive pro-life people slam on women who've had abortions and say that they're murderers who should go to hell. That's horrible and just wrong. But I personally wouldn't advise someone to get an abortion. I think there are other options in most cases.

[TheBoss123]

I'm gonna try to clear this up in one post.

Here's the problems with "pro life" (that's a retarded term anyway, as if anyone that supports abortion is real excited about killing shit):

Without abortion, we would continue to have children growing up in households where they're not loved or properly cared for because the parent(s) didn't want them. Or they end up being born in a toilet and left there. Or they end up in foster care where they either have a good experience with new parents, or a terrible experience with new parents. How about one of the parents has something that has a large chance of passing to the child that isn't exactly a good thing? Crack babies? Rape?

You're telling me it's more humane to allow the kid to grow up experiencing the pains of his up bringing (all the things listed will have an impact on their life) than it is to prevent the suffering by aborting it before it can even know that it's alive? The mother has to live with a physical manifestation of her sexual assault because someone needs to impose their flawed beliefs on others?

It's a selfish mentality to, in a sense, demand that others live life the way you want them to. "Sorry, your kid gets to grow up with that genetic tumor because it would hurt MY irrelevant feelings if you aborted." Fuck your feelings. She's not you, the fetus isn't yours. Go away. And no, you can't have the "abortion is allowed only if..." rule, either. That'll just promote lying and a bunch of other legal problems with scams.

I can get on board with a deadline in the fetus growth process before being allowed to abort. I mean, it doesn't take 8 and a half months to decide if keeping it is best for you. I encourage a deadline. There's a point in time where it's not even conscious anyway. It can't feel or even be self aware at this point. I'll quote myself from what I said in the Obama thread: "No different from pulling the plug on a vegetable in a coma. The person in a coma has no idea they're alive, they're not conscious. They also can't feel themselves die. As far as I'm concerned, aborting before the fetus can feel and think for itself is very similar to that. Different circumstances, sure, but the concept is the same and can be treated the same. The fetus would have no idea that it was alive and, therefore, wouldn't know it died."

There are a lot of people who use abortion as a fix for their stupidity. However, abortion can seriously help A LOT of other people (specifically those in the situations I mentioned). By taking that option away you're effectively fucking everyone that could genuinely benefit from abortion.

this is perfect haha. sums up how i feel about the issue pretty much exactly for me

[Hadez]

You guys know that...not only people on welfare and deadbeats have abortions though, right?

Right.

[IBasicallyRage]

Let people do with it whatever they please.

[Emadyville]

You guys know that...not only people on welfare and deadbeats have abortions though, right?

obviously

[Hadez]

You guys know that...not only people on welfare and deadbeats have abortions though, right?

obviously

I just always see an argument saying, "Well is it fair for the baby to be born into a world where the parents can't provide for it or the living conditions aren't very well because the parents are on welfare or are hooked on ____". It's like...yeah, but everyone gets abortions, not just those people so...

In my post I mentioned genetic problems as well.

[EG.]

If u dont want a kid, u dont want kid. Simple as that