So Fuck Obama

[Guess_Who]

Well, but if we need a blood test we don't have to pay for it. Or if you feel bad in the middle of the night and have to go to emergency.

Out of my ignorance, if this happens in the USA and you can't pay it, they let you die or what?

I'm thinking now in the woman that cleans where I work. She is from Venezuela, recently she had and accident and had to be operated in one leg a few times. She didn't pay anything just because she lives here.

If she was in the US what?? I think we can't complain about that . (I hope our president don't make the situation change)

[Mike_88]

What a fuck is that?
i was drunk as fuck yesterday lol
Sorry guys
But for real I can't understand his politic.

[Guess_Who]

I'm thinking now in the woman that cleans where I work. She is from Venezuela, recently she had and accident and had to be operated in one leg a few times. She didn't pay anything just because she lives here.

Residency doesn't give you access to free healthcare in Spain.
You need to pay taxes. If you don't, you need to be registered with somebody who does - or with a pensioner.

Ok, we pay taxes but you can't compare with what they pay in the US, if they have a serious problem and they need to pay everything.

My father had some health problems this year, we had to go to emergency a lot of times, and an operation. I can't complain at all. Imagine how much that could mean for an american. I think on that way we are better than them. Things could be even better, of course.

[mdemaz]

Who'd wanna pay taxes?

[SliK]

Out of my ignorance, if this happens in the USA and you can't pay it, they let you die or what?

They probably put you on a payment plan

No, they literally turn you away to die.

[SliK]

I completely agree with Calandre here, though I understand what Ray is saying - states have a lot more control in the US. However I think the more you earn the more tax you should pay. Period. Tax breaks for the rich make me sick.

[shadyblogger]

I dotn even know your opinion, you get me lost all the time.

So true

[SliK]

No they don't haha.

The Emergency Medical and Treatment Labor Act (EMTLA) passed by Congress in 1986 explicitly forbids the denial of care to indigent or uninsured patients based on a lack of ability to pay

That's fair enough, maybe public hospitals cannot turn away a patient if it is an emergency or a life threatening issue.

Which is great, unless you've just lost your opposable thumb on your dominant hand and don't have $70,000 to pay for it to be reattached. Then they'll turn you away.

I don't have a source for the next but of info other than Michael Moore's "Sicko" (which is very interesting) with cases like the following:

Deleted American health care scenes include an uninsured woman who was offered a 50% discount for treatment of spinal cancer. She still could not afford the initial consultations, so she held a fundraiser to pay for it. After the initial visit, the 50 percent discount was revoked when the hospital discovered that she had obtained the money to pay for her treatment through fundraising, which the hospital considered to be earned income.

Turned away with Spinal Cancer. I really can't see how that is acceptable. You're crazy if you think this backwards healthcare system hasn't resulted in pain/suffering/death to many Americans.

[Guess_Who]

Direct taxes (i.e. income tax - when you pay taxes related to your earnings) are much more fair than indirect taxes (i.e. petrol, VAT...). It's not that corporations pay such a big amount in taxes in the US that they can afford not to collect income or excise taxes.
Result? The PUBLIC healthcare and education systems in the States is way below any other developed country

It's their choice.
As a country, they prefer not to pay the same amount of taxes we pay in Europe - even if people have to pay $500 for a blood test.
Last year, there was a time when I was visiting my doctor on a weekly visit. For free.
I had surgery. For free.
I spent one night in hospital. For free.

This.

When my father was in hospital , here they send you the bill when you are back home. Symbolically. You don't have to pay it but it's for you to see how much they spent in you.

So there you can see the cost of everything, the medicines, the anesthesia, operation, the stay in hospital, the blood tests, sera... and it was a huge amount of money.

So I definitely prefer to pay the taxes and if something happens go for free.

It's hard to believe that the US keep that system...

Another thing is how much does it cost the health insurance per month in the US?

[Supershade]

Great for people with money

[UofLCard]

If you are unable to pay for medical bills, officials can transport you to university hospitals, as well. They're low cost, I believe.

there's what 52 states?

50.

[TranSlucEnt]

$500 for blood tests like wow ahaha blood tests are free in my country what a pathetic system in America. Now you're on a plan to pay off blood tests? Sorry Aone your country is fucked. Move to Canada, like seriously.

Obama ain't all that good, but he has the weight of LITERALLY the whole world on his shoulders... I don't think he's done the worst job either.

The health care system is fucked without a doubt, but Obamacare hasn't helped much either. I stopped paying for health insurance in 2010 when I realized that it was much cheaper for me to just stay on payment plans. The most I was ever paying was something like $150 and that was only for 10 months.

I honestly preferred not having to pay for insurance and just staying on payment plans with the hospitals and doctors (it sure as hell never exceeded $190 a month), but now I'm FORCED to have health insurance and STILL have to stay on payment plans because a multi-million dollar health insurance can't cover the whole bill. So I'd argue that the Affordable Health Care Act (Obamacare) just made shit much worse for many people.

The criminals in this scenario are the clinics (that charge way too much for their doctors and treatments) and the health insurance companies that don't cover enough..... and here comes Obama passing a law that FORCES me to have to PAY these health insurance companies.

And to make things worse, it's not like you can choose to go to a cheaper doctor.... the health insurance companies will only cover doctors and clinics that are in THEIR network.

I wouldn't want there to be a free health care system here because we are just too damn populated for that, the taxes would be criminal themselves (and would only benefit the leeches of society) but the way it was before worked for me at least. I was able to decide which doctors to see and which clinics to visit (some do charge significantly less than others), now I'm just fucked.

Out of my ignorance, if this happens in the USA and you can't pay it, they let you die or what?

They probably put you on a payment plan

Yup.... and depending on how complicated the procedures are, you can be paying it for 20+ years. But now imagine having to pay $150+ a month for health insurance already, and still having to be on a payment plan for what your health insurance didn't cover. It's fucking bullshit.

Very true Aone. More specifically, it lies within the billing, coding, and reimbursement procedures & policies set by the hospitals and insurance companies. They are often heavily regulated by states, as well as the federal government. And are constantly under watch by HIPPA to make sure they don't fuck up. For the most part, the hospitals work in part with all major insurance companies to determine prices. Of course you have to keep in mind the constant evolution of technology and medicine will increase billing. Sometimes, this can be contributed to what's called 'over-coding' (the process of assigning numerical codes to procedures for billing and reimbursement purposes) however this was a lot more prevalent in the 90s. Now a days, over-coding is less than 5%, but if caught intentionally doing it, you're pretty much fucked.

[shadyblogger]

Explain to me why they are great.

And it's a shame education policy is not part of my job spec...

What is your alternative?

[SliK]

What is your alternative?

Free education for students who cannot afford the tuition fees.

How does that sound?

The HECS system in Australia is pretty fair

[Guess_Who]

Gotta love this Calandre vs Bigray debates....