by mrjizzbomber » Sep 2nd, '10, 00:02
Oh wow, that last post of yours covered like 5 different topics I could write books about. Try to hang with me, I'll keep it as short as I can...
I will admit, nobody knows for sure about some of the questions you are posing and topics you are touching on. The history of the universe, the beginning of life, the evolution of man, the way the human mind works. But, I think you are giving science WAY too little credit. To say the scheme of things is very mysterious and none of us can start to comprehend how it works is a big statement. There is actually loads of great research and very detailed theories about all of these things. Science NEVER gets any credit...
Side note - and this is mirroring something you said, but I've seen people get confused on this issue for YEARS. The issue people have in understanding scientific theory is that science follows certain methods and standards. Things are presented as theories - the theory of evolution, the big bang theory, the space-time theory. Theory DOESN'T mean that someone was dicking around and came up with a cool idea. Theory means hundreds if not thousands of hours of research, mathematics, and collaboration of the greatest minds our species can offer are presenting a scientifically and mathematically sound solution. The issue is PROOF is a critical concept in science. To prove something means there is absolutely no exception. When something is proved every if and or but has been thought of. So, for science or math to issue something as fact takes a LOT. On that note, when you hear a scientific theory presented (big bang theory, theory of evolution), don't think "oh, well interesting philosophy and cool guess bro, but I don't think so". No, you should understand the countless time, effort, science and research that has went into that, and likely accept it as the "most likely" scenario or "closest to reality".
Not to go into religion, but you mentioned the "fairy tales" of how this world came to be. You don't blindly believe them - good - but some people do. It is this about religion that I think hurts science so bad. Religion presents fairy tales and stories as absolute fact. Religion takes absurd fantasies written thousands of years ago (likely written as fairy tales with the intention of making a point), and tells its followers "this is fact". You must "have faith" and believe these absurdities without question. So when you compare religion (unfounded stories presented as absolute fact) with science (ideas backed with research, thought and math presented as they are - yet to be proven theories) I can see how people get so damn confused.
Anyway, to get off the side note, this is what I am really getting at. If you look at the science behind the creation of the universe, the creation of life and the evolution of man, you will see that it is not chance that the human body works as it does. It is not "so lucky" that the Earth is "just the right way" for us to live. It is not "so lucky" that the elements we need to survive just happen to be abundant on our planet. The Earth, sun, and molecules in our planet did not come into being to sustain US. WE came into being in such a way that we are able to be sustained by the elements around us.
The first molecules which joined together in a stable way was inevitable. This has probably happened untold amounts of times over the course of history, and still happens to this day. However, it took the correct molecules bonding together to be not only stable, but reproducible. That "right combination" was determined by the exact conditions of Earth. That reproducibility (not yet reproduction, but the ancestors of reproduction) served as the gateway to the first life on Earth. It took randomness, it took molecules bouncing around, forming other unstable molecules. It took millions of years of failure. But, by chance (and yet at the same time inevitably), the correct formations were made that lead up to life.
Once we saw first life (uni-cellular organisms)... well, evolution took place from there. Random mutation creates diversity. Diversity allows for survival of the fittest. Survival of the fittest leads to the dominance of new species, which are continually randomly mutated. And so on and so on (I won't cover the entire theory of evolution, IMO this is one of the soundest theories in science - it REALLY should be universally excepted, its just too damn proven, and awesome).
So, what you see as being "perfectly built" I argue is inevitable. You think there has to be something that created all of this, I see that order came out of chaos, life came from millions of years of individual atoms and molecules bouncing around and randomly colliding.
Does all of this theory trace back to some point of uncertainty? Sure it does. But, I think there is a LOT more that we know than people seem to give us credit for. We can't quite explain the entire history of how we got here... but we do a pretty damn good job at it. From the universe being a sea of individual Hydrogen molecules to life today, science can offer a pretty comprehensive, logically, mathematically and empirically sound answer to the history of everything.
As a second point, it is thousands of years of empirical evidence, and (at least) hundreds of years of solid scientific evidence that backs my claim that we can NOT manifest physical entities with our imagination. Although, I don't think you are seriously trying to argue that we can, so I'll leave it at that.
And, FINALLY being on topic... the every day public is wishy washy on scientifically sound theories such as big bang and evolution. Yet something ridiculous such as...
"our disposition directly influences what happens to us. If we think positive, positive things will inevitably happen. If we think negative, negative things will inevitably happen"
... comes cross people's radars and they don't hesitate to see merit in such absurdness. Like, yeah, sounds good to me, lets believe it! The point I am making is that any connection between a person's mental state and what happens to them in life has a real world explanation. Yes, sure, when you are happy you are more inclined to do things that help yourself... but don't make it out like your positive attitude was the direct link between you finding that 20 dollars in your pocket.
And I saw Zu's original topic in which this absurdity was rationalized with quantum physics, and I cry myself to sleep at night
Haha, its all good though. 