Morals

[SliK]

Morality is a tool that helps/helped us survive as animals with intelligence. That's why despite signs of moral relativism, there are universal laws that seem to exist in societies everywhere. Killing is usually pretty bad, rape is pretty bad, stealing, etc.. as these things are typically counterproductive to a social environment that allows us to work together and survive.

Rape and murder are both very, very common.

Common in the sense that societies are typically against it.. Yeah, I agree. What's your point?

There are no universal laws that apply to everyone.

[Willy]

Do you agree that most societies enforce some sort of punishment for those that kill?

If so:

Morality is a tool that helps/helped us survive as animals with intelligence. That's why despite signs of moral relativism, there are universal laws that seem to exist in societies everywhere. Killing is usually pretty bad, rape is pretty bad, stealing, etc.. as these things are typically counterproductive to a social environment that allows us to work together and survive.

If not:

8======D ------ - - --- ----- - - - -

[SliK]

Yeah, there are laws against it. But... There are far too many individuals who rape and kill to say there are any universal morals that apply to everyone.

[classthe_king]

Yeah, there are laws against it. But... There are far too many individuals who rape and kill to say there are any universal morals that apply to everyone.

People who murder and rape know that it's wrong, they just do it anyway

[SliK]

Yeah, there are laws against it. But... There are far too many individuals who rape and kill to say there are any universal morals that apply to everyone.

People who murder and rape know that it's wrong, they just do it anyway

People who live in a society that had raised them to believe it is wrong, think it is wrong. That is because society has trained them to believe that. In the same way that a society who practices ritual sacrifices (a lot of primitive cultures) or public execution (in the Middle Ages for example) will believe those actions are fine.

[classthe_king]

No, it is wrong. I don't care what primitive cultures think.

[CrashBand]

There are no universal laws that apply to everyone.

Yeah there are.

Methinks.

[SliK]

People can know something is wrong in society, like taking drugs, but still not feel that it is wrong.
Murder seems like the way a lot of people solve their problems, without worrying about the moral dilemma.
What moral guideline can you say applies to all cultures in all time periods? There are none, and therefor no universal "right" and "wrong" exists.

[classthe_king]

Just because people do something doesn't mean that it isn't wrong

[SliK]

It means that they don't feel that it's wrong... So how can you argue that there are universal moral codes, if not everyone, not even every society, follows the same codes.

If there was something (murder for example) that everyone was born feeling strongly opposed to, there wouldn't be cultures that sacrifice humans or individuals who kill for fun.

Against the law doesn't necessarily mean an action is wrong, just that that particular society has deemed it so.

[classthe_king]

No it doesn't. People know that things are wrong and still do them.

[SliK]

A child doesn't.

[classthe_king]

A child doesn't have the mental capacity to understand what is right and what is wrong.

[CrashBand]

People can know something is wrong in society, like taking drugs, but still not feel that it is wrong.
Murder seems like the way a lot of people solve their problems, without worrying about the moral dilemma.
What moral guideline can you say applies to all cultures in all time periods? There are none, and therefor no universal "right" and "wrong" exists.

If you can imagine a hypothetical place where every living creature is in the worst possible suffering.

Anything that moves us out of that place is a universally morally right action.

[SliK]

A child doesn't have the mental capacity to understand what is right and what is wrong.

But he understands that he must breathe, eat, sleep and drink.. Because these are all universal, instinctual behaviors. "Not murdering someone" most certainly is not.