incest, religion, etc. (cont'd from pudding's thread)

[CrashBand]

Haven't read the thread, but will just write down my thoughts on the issue.

As it's probably been said, incestuous couples shouldn't be having kids. That's most likely why we evolved an aversion to it, because it (increases the chance?) harms the offspring.

Then people ask if it's alright if they don't have kids. Not harming anyone, so, sure, seems fine. Can be paralleled to gay couples. Consenting adults should be able to be in a relationship, and even fuck.

I used to find it interesting bringing this up to pro-gay-rights people, who would intuitively think they idea of incest being ok was wrong or disgusting, and then use this to help empathaise with homophobic reactions. It's a pretty natural reaction to feel uncomfortable with things that aren't in the societal norm. However, when one has discussed and anaylsed the issue, we should be empathetic to someone who is still homophobic or fully against incest, as they are either being extremely close-minded, or just not very intelligent.

Incest is a more complex issue than gay relationships, as a lot of cases of incest can be an abuse of trust. We seem to have an inherent love for our family, and this type of love could be manipulated and then misconstrued as the type of love one has for their partner. Is 20 year old Sally fucking daddy for the right reasons? It's pretty fucking grey. Basically, the "stronger" the incest is, they harder it is to determine.

Another problem is the issue of not being allowed to have kids. Even if we agree that incestuous couples shouldn't be allowed to have offspring (from memory, SliK even contests this point), it will be virtually impossible to enforce. So there is another potential reason to not want to allow incestuous relationships.

[SliK]

Gay couples can't have their own kid, should we ban gay couples?

How do you make a law against procreation? With all the technological advances in fertility you could pick and choose your baby's genetic make-up to ensure no genetic defects. What's the problem with incestuous couples doing this?

[Sobecaspur]

The way I see it incest should be a thing of the past.
If not, those people are severely uneducated, and sheltered.
example=if your father was keeping you prisoner and raping you (way back in the 1940's)
and only boy/man that respected you was relative.
I bet you, at your first chance of elopement you'd take it to get away as soon as you could.
Abuse caused children in same family's to marry early to be able to escape abuser.
after escaping, the false type of connection would correct itself hopefully later on, if not isolation could.

[cement]

with some autistic people or people with tourettes you cant even notice they got it though

[SajN]

Cystic fibrosis

[SliK]

It is a disorder though, that is the clinical term for it. A developmental disorder.
It's not like anyone called you a retard or a spastic.

IVF is expensive but accessible to many people. I know two people who have used IVF.

@SWA developmental disorders aren't the problem people really associate with kids of incestuous couples. Many of the problems can be avoided with today's technology.

[SliK]

Down Syndrome is an extra chromosome as I'm sure you know. Something that can be tested for. Virtually any genetic defect could be identified (and avoided if they're making a baby in a lab).

I think a LOT of the restraints science has placed on it is from "moral" (read: religious) idiots. The research being done is hindered SO MUCH from things like making stem cell research illegal and things like that.

I understand what you are saying about things like autism, ADD/ADHD, schizophrenia, bi-polar disorder, etc. these cannot be identified before birth but the more we are allowed to research and "play God", the more we will learn.

I feel like there is no moral dilemma in incestuous couples having children if the child could be healthy. The incest thread in this section has a really good debate on this, I encourage you to read a bit.

[SliK]

Not everyone knows who their siblings are. There are cases of siblings who don't even know they're siblings falling in love.

Should gay incestuous couples be allowed? Like, brother and brother? Since they are gay they would have to adopt anyway. What could be morally wrong with gay incestuous relationships?

Btw, if you want to talk about not seeing the logic, then lol. What is logical about love? What is logical about a man falling in love with another man? What is logical about keeping people with bad genes alive, through medicines and treatments, only to have them reproduce and further fill the pool of genetic defects?

Should everyone with anything wrong with them also be prevented from having children - just in case?

[TheBoss123]

Down the line it would definitly hurt us, we have the ability to deal with things now, knowing the consequences, but i dont know if its human nature or what, but we never fix things until the absolute last possible second. Intelligence is what led to our evolutionary success, i see no reason why that wouldnt continue to be the case. I feel being of the intelligence that humans are, we have a responsibility to make the right decisions, that benefit us and our environment. I mean i think its why we know murder is wrong, taking a life is wrong, we know destroying our planet is wrong. The ability to make these moral choices that have a large impact on the world around us, shoulders us with the conscious responsibility of ensuring our own future. Humans do destroy, but we have the conscious ability to know that its wrong, which means we can do something about it.

I dont see any immediate social moral reason for why incest is wrong, people can fuck who they want, the real problem is the reproduction. if they are allowed to reproduce it is not only bad for the individual but bad others as well, maybe not in call cases, but reproducing genetic abnormalities that impair us obviously arent good for our species, so logically speaking incestuous relationships just shouldnt reproduce. But you have no way of enforcing that, without just saying no all together. So maybe its best that it continue to be looked down upon.