What is the evolutionary benefit of consciousness

[Willy]

...if we don't have free will?

[Elision]

http://youtu.be/NCaK35DQ4uk?t=7m17s

watch from that point to about 13 mins

[Elision]

http://youtu.be/NCaK35DQ4uk?t=7m17s

watch from that point to about 13 mins

You belong in a fucking straight jacket.

Why's that? Everything said about consciousness' evolutionary role from the 10 minute mark was from an observational standpoint. Not theoretical.

[Kill You]

http://youtu.be/NCaK35DQ4uk?t=7m17s

watch from that point to about 13 mins

You belong in a fucking straight jacket.

That guy really does have a lot of great points though. Good enough to make me watch his other videos. Smart man. He just seems like he would be awkward as fuck to hang out with. I think every time we would bar hop would turn into a science classroom.

[Elision]

He died in 2000, but he was a revolutionary psychonaut. He spent weeks at a time with his brother out in the forest surviving almost exclusively on psilocybin mushrooms, trying to build a philosophers stone. His brother, Dennis is still around and has a few interviews out there that are also worth checking out. But definitely check out as much of Terence's work as possible.

[Arrinef]

its that barrier that makes us human, instead of apes.

its the power thats keeps most people from raping, and mudering.

[CrashBand]

Not sure why your free will question is relevant.

I guess emotions increase the likelihood that a person will respond to a particular situation in an certain way.

And having conscious mental states surely improves the accuracy of predicting the behaviors of others.

[Willy]

The free will part is relevant because if we are simply vehicles for the survival of our genes... and we don't actually have the ability to make decisions... then why did we evolve to think that we do? If free-will is truly 100% an illusion then what evolutionary benefit is there for us to believe in the illusion? Seems completely unnecessary.

[CrashBand]

We do make decision, lol. We just don't have conscious authorship.

So your question is more specific - what evolutionary purpose is there for having free will as an illusion?

[Willy]

Some biologists believe that free will is an illusion. (We don't make the decisions, though we are aware of the paths we could take.)

Given that free will is an illusion, what is the evolutionary benefit of believing we have it? Seems unnecessary.

[Elision]

The free will part is relevant because if we are simply vehicles for the survival of our genes... and we don't actually have the ability to make decisions... then why did we evolve to think that we do? If free-will is truly 100% an illusion then what evolutionary benefit is there for us to believe in the illusion? Seems completely unnecessary.

Some biologists believe that free will is an illusion. (We don't make the decisions, though we are aware of the paths we could take.)

Given that free will is an illusion, what is the evolutionary benefit of believing we have it? Seems unnecessary.

Explain what you mean by free will being an illusion. I'm not quite following. Do you mean that we're limited to our bodies?

Also, beliefs aren't evolutionarily beneficial by default. Not sure what you're talking about there either

[Willy]

The free will part is relevant because if we are simply vehicles for the survival of our genes... and we don't actually have the ability to make decisions... then why did we evolve to think that we do? If free-will is truly 100% an illusion then what evolutionary benefit is there for us to believe in the illusion? Seems completely unnecessary.

Explain what you mean by free will being an illusion. I'm not quite following. Do you mean that we're limited to our bodies?

Also, beliefs aren't evolutionarily beneficial by default. Not sure what you're talking about there either

Currently watching a movie and I've only read the first paragraph of the article...but this should help:

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/victor-st ... 62533.html

If not google "Free will illusion"... it is a pretty popular topic and you should have no problem finding information.

[Elision]

The free will part is relevant because if we are simply vehicles for the survival of our genes... and we don't actually have the ability to make decisions... then why did we evolve to think that we do? If free-will is truly 100% an illusion then what evolutionary benefit is there for us to believe in the illusion? Seems completely unnecessary.

Explain what you mean by free will being an illusion. I'm not quite following. Do you mean that we're limited to our bodies?

Also, beliefs aren't evolutionarily beneficial by default. Not sure what you're talking about there either

Currently watching a movie and I've only read the first paragraph of the article...but this should help:

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/victor-st ... 62533.html

If not google "Free will illusion"... it is a pretty popular topic and you should have no problem finding information.

Oh I'm familiar with Sam Harris' work. This is just noting that the primal/reptilian part of the brain has a say in our decision making. Much like our subconscious mind feeds our conscious dreams. However, embodied consciousness is automatically free-willed in the sense that it has the ability to make decisions period. It just comes down to what part of ourselves we're referring to when we say "me". The article you linked came to the same conclusion:

If you and I are not just some immaterial consciousness (or soul) but rather our physical brains and bodies, then it is still "we" who make our decisions. And after all, that's what the brain evolved to do, whatever role consciousness might play. And, therefore, it is "we" who are responsible for those decisions.

That being said, the evolutionary benefit of consciousness isn't necessarily free will, since that comes with the body. Consciousness is the universe's latest tool (next to technology) in the push towards the singularity.

[EminemBase]

I'd imagine the evolutionary benefit is the conscious feedback of information.

I don't think it's that we don't have free-will, but just that... not how we think of it. Typically people think of free-will as the 'conscious us' (which is the only 'me', we think of when you think of yourself, as it's the only part of you that is aware) making choices... when this is simply not true.

Conscious us is us being aware of the choices 'we' have made, and by that I mean every other part of your brain that you're not aware of / that is not conscious. As that's where all choices are truly made, and you then become consciously aware of the choice and feel as if you just made it... as why wouldn't you, since you've only just become aware of it, therefore to you, it feels like a 'live choice', when in fact it's a choice that was made seconds before by parts of your brain you don't feel in control of. WE are still making choices, just not the we that we think of as us.

But conscious feedback of information is important for evolution in behaviour, adaption, creativity and communication - all of which are huge advantages in all areas of survival from clothing and shelter to sourcing and producing food, to maneuvering the Earth, to choosing sexual partners...

Consciousness allows for NEW information to be considered by our brains and shape our future thoughts, beliefs and desires - which always change, and which allow for humans to continue to advance psychologically and mentally.

This is probably why we have no true physical attributes of strength of speed in comparison to other species - but why we can in fact create tools and devices which mirror any attribute and become tools of strength and speed much greater than the attribute of any other species; aka a plane is like a bird, a speedboat is like a shark etc. - and the design and functions of these things are even modeled after what we know about these species - so the advantage of us being able to be aware of ourselves and the world, analyze and consider new information... is huge, it means that we can intellectually adapt to the changing world around us, always improving our survival rates.

We can't run like cheetahs, but we have Ferrari's. We can't swim like dolphins, but we have ships; we can't fly like Eagle's, yet we have high-speed Jet planes.

We also don't have the natural body warmth of many species, which is probably why clothes became and feel a natural part of us; because they are if you will - a needed extension, a tool of warmth that we do not naturally inhibit so therefore must artificially create.

And because of this - because of our lack of inherit physical advantages but our major intellectual advantage (consciousness), we can forever change and improve every single aspect of our conditions which is why humans are out of the food chain and why we're still here and will probably survive longer than almost every other species. We can mal-adapt, change behaviour, create tools to reflect and combat conditions - diseases etc. - no other species can do this, as they don't have true conscious feeddback and awareness, hence why their behaviour never truly advances.

[Arrinef]

Yo base, im sure it also plays a big role when were dreaming in our rem cycle.