Poll: Conservative, Liberal, Moderate

[WakeUpShow]

Conservative for me.

I know i will fail at stopping this, but please people just vote, don't go off saying "anyone who is a ______ is an idiot."

[Robbie G]

Conservative

I have some moderate views but I definitely lean to the conservative side.

[mrjizzbomber]

Liberal on social issues (gay marriage, drug policy, separation of church and state, immigration), moderate on fiscal and foreign policy issues.

Voted liberal

[WakeUpShow]

Conservative

I have some moderate views but I definitely lean to the conservative side.

you against abortion?

[Robbie G]

Hmm....

Very early term abortion is still a grey area for me...I believe that it is immoral, murder, and should never happen but I'm not sure that I would go as far as to make it illegal. In this day in age with all the information out there and easy access to contraceptives there's no reason for somebody to get pregnant by mistake. And if it does happen it is more than likely out of their own carelessness and they should live up to there responsibilities. It's not he kids fault that you fooled around without a condom. On top of that there are other options like adoption which I find much more humane than abortion.

So I in no way/shape/form support abortion but I'm not sure that I would straight up say that it should be illegal in all cases. I more just wish that it was unnecessary.

[mrjizzbomber]

I agree that abortions arising from consensual sex should be outright banned, but how about for rape? Or if the mother is a crack addict (which will mean the child will be born addicted to crack)?

I think there needs to be fairly strict limitations to abortion (particularly for stage of pregnancy), but I can think of a few cases where it seems like the best option. Plus, making it illegal would likely create a pretty scary black market.

[WakeUpShow]

I agree that abortions arising from consensual sex should be outright banned, but how about for rape? Or if the mother is a crack addict (which will mean the child will be born addicted to crack)?

I think there needs to be fairly strict limitations to abortion (particularly for stage of pregnancy), but I can think of a few cases where it seems like the best option. Plus, making it illegal would likely create a pretty scary black market.

i understand about the rape issue. it's so hard to judge that woman and say what she does or doesn't have to go through. but in all cases of unwanted pregnancy during consensual sex. there is no need to have an abortion when adoption is an option

[mrjizzbomber]

I figure you would need to have made a charge against someone for the rape excuse to fly. Like, a criminal investigation has to be taking place to corroborate the claim.

Or, a doctor would have to determine either 1 - your life will be in danger due to the pregnancy, or 2 - the baby will have a serious disorder or drug addiction (unfortunately because of the mother's lifestyle...)

I guess I am more moderate on abortion than anything, but I do see value in the option, and especially for medical doctors to be able to carry it out (rather than have a back ally guy dig it out with a wire hanger)

[WakeUpShow]

I figure you would need to have made a charge against someone for the rape excuse to fly. Like, a criminal investigation has to be taking place to corroborate the claim.

Or, a doctor would have to determine either 1 - your life will be in danger due to the pregnancy, or 2 - the baby will have a serious disorder or drug addiction (unfortunately because of the mother's lifestyle...)

I guess I am more moderate on abortion than anything, but I do see value in the option, and especially for medical doctors to be able to carry it out (rather than have a back ally guy dig it out with a wire hanger)

I am very pro-life so besides the rape situation, then i believe no abortions should be legal.

[mrjizzbomber]

In general what we see today is "social liberalism" and "neo-conservatism", not really true liberalism or true conservatism. Keeping that in mind, I will try to keep my definitions relevant to today (as oppose to the classic definitions)...

Liberal - Supports equal rights. Supports the idea that everyone should have equal opportunity in life. Supports taxing the wealthy to provide government funded social services. Supports providing basic human needs to all citizens. Supports separation of church and state. Supports regulation of business. Supports protection of the environment. Supports economic freedom, free markets and free trade.

Conservative - Supports traditional values. Supports family values. Supports Christian values and the influence of church on secular affairs. Supports social and economic stability in terms of policies put in place. Supports intervening in foreign affairs to promote the spread of democracy worldwide. Supports strict enforcement of the law. Supports tax cuts in order to promote economic growth. Supports business, and policies which will allow businesses to grow, and thus lead to job creation.

As you can see, the issues range from economic to social, domestic to international. There are also myriads of different forms of liberal and conservative. Some liberals, like myself, are really only liberal on social issues (equal rights for all), but waver towards the middle with the economy and foreign affairs. Some conservatives are really only conservative on social issues (family / Christian values), but waver towards the middle on economic policy.

To sum it up I would embody the idea of liberal with "equal rights" and conservative with "family values".

Liberal and conservative don't have to clash heads so violently as they do in politics. Its the 2 party system that really fucks everything up and makes our country so sad in the end. For example, I think me and CoSh could come to a reasonable agreement on abortion rights. He is clearly slightly more conservative on the issue, and I am slightly liberal, but we could probably come to a good middle ground. However, Republicans and Democrats could NEVER come to an agreement. The reason is, if Bush was president and we came to an agreement, the bizarre, idiotic mentality of the Democrats would be "we lost because of who was in power when the legislation was made, so we HAVE TO oppose it". If Obama was president when the agreement was made, the Republicans would bizarrely and idiotically have the same mentality.

[Devil'sAdvocate]

Liberal.

[AbramIsaac]

If Obama was president when the agreement was made, the Republicans would bizarrely and idiotically have the same mentality.

The very type of situation you're describing has been happening since Obama got in. Republicans have been blocking legislation that does, in fact, almost mirror that proposed by people of their own party in the past. The Healthcare Bill is similar to what Mitt Romney proposed at one point in time. However, it's not just the Republicans, the Democrats are prick bastards too.

Regardless of my angry rants against the Conservative political belief, I understand and even respect the views of those who can actually justify their opinions with solid facts--not just propaganda and half-truths that have permeated the political atmosphere and Fox News.

For instance, I lashed out at CoSh because he said "liberals are ruining this country", (or perhaps it was running it into the ground) and he replied--not with a flame, or "Shut the Fuck Up" (as I began my statement towards him) but with a dollar number, relating to the debt. Now, while I could debate further on the issue of spending, and what we spend our money on, the point is that he justified his belief with a fact.

Unfortunately, political news media has turned people into idiots that believe whatever Beck or Olbermann tell them. It's these "political commentators"--not journalists, who are supposed to have ethics--that tell people what to believe now. This happens with Liberals and Conservatives, it just happens to work better with the Conservatives, in my opinion. Liberals tend to split and fragment, and that's why the party under-performs in elections, and can't pass strong legislation, even if they have a majority.

I'm a liberal in many respects, but conservative in many as well. Constitutional rights? Yeah, I'm all for it, as I believe most Americans are. Guns and everything. However, I also believe in equal rights for everyone--including homosexuals and Muslims. I believe in regulating big business with a heavy hand, and taxing the fuck out of them. I think we should have Universal Healthcare (like every other Industrialized nation) and I think our military complex brings us more trouble than it prevents.

I don't believe in the Drug War, as I think it's a public health issue. I'm against the nanny-state that liberals and conservatives are both driving us to. I believe in State's Rights, in many aspects.

Above all, I dislike almost all politicians, as they are practically all bought by the time they reach major office. If the GOP was smart, they would have pushed Ron Paul harder than they did. Unfortunately, Fox News left him out of debates, even though he had a stronger following than some of the people they invited. I honestly would have possibly voted for him, instead of Obama, simply based on the fact that he's not some one's property, and he actually has strong principles that aren't dictated to him by the GOP or anyone else.

Sorry, CoSh. If you would prefer we not have a discussion in this thread, I'll edit my ridiculously long post.

[AbramIsaac]

ok thanks mrjizzbomber, then I am Conservative..
I say no to abortion, no to gay rights...

This is more geared towards the United State's standards. Canadian Conservatives, for instance, are practically liberals by the standards here in the US.

[WakeUpShow]

If Obama was president when the agreement was made, the Republicans would bizarrely and idiotically have the same mentality.

The very type of situation you're describing has been happening since Obama got in. Republicans have been blocking legislation that does, in fact, almost mirror that proposed by people of their own party in the past. The Healthcare Bill is similar to what Mitt Romney proposed at one point in time. However, it's not just the Republicans, the Democrats are prick bastards too.

Regardless of my angry rants against the Conservative political belief, I understand and even respect the views of those who can actually justify their opinions with solid facts--not just propaganda and half-truths that have permeated the political atmosphere and Fox News.

For instance, I lashed out at CoSh because he said "liberals are ruining this country", (or perhaps it was running it into the ground) and he replied--not with a flame, or "Shut the Fuck Up" (as I began my statement towards him) but with a dollar number, relating to the debt. Now, while I could debate further on the issue of spending, and what we spend our money on, the point is that he justified his belief with a fact.

Unfortunately, political news media has turned people into idiots that believe whatever Beck or Olbermann tell them. It's these "political commentators"--not journalists, who are supposed to have ethics--that tell people what to believe now. This happens with Liberals and Conservatives, it just happens to work better with the Conservatives, in my opinion. Liberals tend to split and fragment, and that's why the party under-performs in elections, and can't pass strong legislation, even if they have a majority.

I'm a liberal in many respects, but conservative in many as well. Constitutional rights? Yeah, I'm all for it, as I believe most Americans are. Guns and everything. However, I also believe in equal rights for everyone--including homosexuals and Muslims. I believe in regulating big business with a heavy hand, and taxing the fuck out of them. I think we should have Universal Healthcare (like every other Industrialized nation) and I think our military complex brings us more trouble than it prevents.

I don't believe in the Drug War, as I think it's a public health issue. I'm against the nanny-state that liberals and conservatives are both driving us to. I believe in State's Rights, in many aspects.

Above all, I dislike almost all politicians, as they are practically all bought by the time they reach major office. If the GOP was smart, they would have pushed Ron Paul harder than they did. Unfortunately, Fox News left him out of debates, even though he had a stronger following than some of the people they invited. I honestly would have possibly voted for him, instead of Obama, simply based on the fact that he's not some one's property, and he actually has strong principles that aren't dictated to him by the GOP or anyone else.

Sorry, CoSh. If you would prefer we not have a discussion in this thread, I'll edit my ridiculously long post.

it's fine i knew it would haopen eventually, so proceed

[mrjizzbomber]

Abram, I think I agree with you on every single point you make, and every single position you hold on the issues you mentioned.

I even agree with you about Ron Paul. I would have absolutely backed Paul. He was fantastic, and its a damn shame the Republican party neglected him. He had a better grasp on policy than any candidate either side had to offer. I think our country would be in a great place if he were elected (well... actually not, as the Dems would just block his legislation just to starve him of "victories". Fucking 2 party system is retarded).