Reflections on violent children...Part I

[Emadyville]

I figured I'd welcome this section with information from my psych and anti-social behavior class.

We're learning about serial killers for the most part, our professor is one the best in her field in the world which is really awesome, but we are currently learning about how people "become" violent or what makes them kill; and the information comes from Savage Spawn: Reflections on Violent Children by Jonathan Kellerman.

In it he talks about people who we deem "psychopaths", who kill, and how we often think they can be rehabilitated. He says this is from our viewing them based on, and almost in comparison to our own psychs. Therefore, we empathize and search for common ground, and assume humanity where none exists.

In regards to some violent children he references Mitchell Johnson (13) and Andrew Golden (11), who on March 26, 1998 killed four students and one teacher at their middle school in Arkansas. The point of this is to explain that what they did was premeditated, when "experts" would like to say that these boys (and others who have done similar acts) should not be held responsible for their acts because they are mentally ill, and that they can be rehabilitated. He ends his discussion on them saying that what they did could not lack mental capacity because what they did was a calculated, well-planned violent act.

He also talks about how we as a society sometimes view people who murder (referring to extremely violent crimes, more often mass or serial murders) as heroic, but in a sense that we see the "power" they have had over people. A great example of this is Hitler, because he managed for some time to "persuade the world to endorse his illusion of power".

There will be more to come from this book and class discussion on violent children, as well as other interesting information on serial killers

Any questions or if you wanna add to this topic, please discuss now

[Emadyville]

Well I feel that what we're learning in class makes sense with what the author is saying in this book.

For instance, those 2 kinds mentioned before, idk who did what, but between them a 3 years old girl was inappropriately touched, in first grade one shot a girl in the face with a small like hand made gun that had gravel in it, one killed some cats with a bb gun or some type of gun, one was extremely moody like one minute very happy the next very angry, and used to say they were going to shoot kids.

So as you can see, they both had "problems" or signs that should have been addressed. They have both since been released from prison and since gone back for weapons charges, lying on applications to get guns, and drugs. So as you can see, they didn't change, and they won't until they're old and not able to do things like that anymore.

That is one thing we have learned, that anti-social behavior like that doesn't stop, the definition in the book is:
Antisocial Personality Disorder-A history of continuous and chronic antisocial behavior in which the rights of others are violated, persistence into adult life of a pattern of antisocial behavior that began before the age of 15, and failure to sustain good job performance over a period of several years. Lying, stealing, fighting, truancy, and resisting authority are typical early childhood signs. unusually early or aggressive sexual behavior, excessive drinking, and use of illicit drugs are frequent.

It continues to say after 30 these tendencies start to diminish, as in the "flagrant" aspects of the before mentioned characteristics.

IMO, I believe this to be true from the cases we looked it. It seems like people with this antisocial behavior do not change, much like we as people don't change in many of our morals, beliefs, etc. It's just that their ways of life are so detrimental that the author of the book says they should not ever be released from prison, because they do not work well in society, again for the reasons he stated in the definition as well as everything else that I mentioned.

[Emadyville]

Sorry if too many questions.

No, never too many questions

does that mean they shouldn't be included in society completely?

I believe what they're saying is that, when crimes are committed that are of the nature of the school shootings, they should never be permitted back into normal society. Now, if they have the characteristics and show they have this antisocial behavior, they should get counseling, or something of that nature so things do not get worse, which does not mean they will get better or that they will never do such harmful acts. The way it seems in what I've learned so far is that they will not change, but it doesn't mean they will shoot people either. I hope that answer made sense

You also said that these early problems or signs should have been addressed early, does that mean that parents/guardians should be blamed or held responsible?

I believe that parents not noticing something is wrong or off about their child is a problem, and for that they should be held somewhat responsible, as a parent, to get their child the attention they need. In regards to being responsible for them being 11 and 13 and killing the people they did, or kids like them who did things similar, no, they should not be responsible. But at the same time, had they gotten them the help they needed those things may not have occurred. The reason they shouldn't be held responsible for the latter is for the same reason as in the first answer, that help doesn't mean they will not do these terrible things, because people with the antisocial behavior seem to eventually do so (in the aspect of not having psychiatric/other help prior).

Edit: Let me also add that the parents should see the problems, look at the problems those kids had and what they did before the school shooting, it should have been very obvious something was wrong.

I hope that helped

[Emadyville]

Hmmmm very interesting and thank you for answering all my questions. So far everything you've explained makes sense, which made me think deeper, so luckily for you don't have any more questions, yet.

Haha, well part II will go up tomo, I figure I have to separate these topics otherwise it's just too much information in one thread. But if anything else comes to you feel free to ask