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Racism

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Re: Racism

Postby EminemBase » Feb 23rd, '13, 06:17

CrashBand wrote:Hmmmm....I dunno. I fully comprehend what you're saying.

But I still I have a problem with knowingly using a racist insult as a tool for genuinely insulting someone - and then saying it's alright because "you're fine with black people".


Well I wouldn't do it, but because it's lame.

I agree it's a lame thing to do, it's cheap, but it's not racist. It CAN be racist, but it's not racist by default to do it - depends how the person really feels.

And it's not saying 'because you're fine with black people' (who said it was just black btw, racism isn't reserved for black people), - it's saying that it's an arbitrary insult meant to provoke, a cheap shortcut to an obvious characteristic.

I think it's actually... patronizing how people make EXCEPTIONS for race, and disability. In the sense of, all races are equal - and disabled people deserve the same rights: yet there should be no racial humour, or 'disabled humour'? I'm not saying I do or find it funny, I'm saying - from a logical standpoint; that's a condescending and misguided, unfair privilege. It's not viewing all races or al people as equal if you reserve negative thinking from them. Do black people not make fun of each other? or do they deserve special privilege for jokes made against them? this is a cowardly and misguided way of thinking, it's with the best intent, but not healthy, and not equal.

You may say 'well people can't help what colour their skin is' - people can't help most things. People can't help how tall they are, if they have a big nose... if they're bald, but do we not joke about those things? should there not be insults or should somebody be called prejudice if they use insults regarding those characteristics which they also cannot help?

Look at the characteristics objectively:

Race: a biological factor, of which a person cannot help.

Height: a biological factor, of which a person cannot help.

So what's the difference in insulting somebody for height over race? there isn't one. Other than the deep and volatile history of race relations. But we'll never truly move past them if it's always a hush-hush issue. Race will always be a sensitive and over-catuious area, which also isn't healthy. It's patronizing and positive-discrimination to give race a special status of 'no-go' when we all insult each other on a myriad of other factors, all of which we cannot control.

All that matters is intent, and context.

If Louis CK says "shut up you fucking n1kka" towards an audience member in a show, but they aren't even black: clearly - the intent is comical and ironic, meant to bring attention to the word, and the context is reversed, so the word loses its offensive meaning. And OBVIOUSLY Louis CK is not really feeling racism when using that word, he's using it as a prop, a shortcut to humour.

Similarly, if one person insults another using a racial slur by where the word is not really 'felt' and by where the word is being used as a shortcut, in a context of anger and provocation... that's not racism and it's no different than saying "you bald cunt", "you blonde bitch" etc. we just give these kinds of insults much less weight or gravitas because there's no history of mass abuse or tension. But that's wrong; that's making an invisible connection OF race to all people, that's still SEEING race and modifying our thoughts and behavior to suit it, even if for a positive intent.

I agree that it's probably not smart, and it's a tacky thing to do. And everything I've just explained means fuck all when in the heat of the moment somebody feels racially insulted. But I think we should all fucking loosen up, words mean nothing, we give them meaning, who fucking cares? call me whatever you like, I only get offended if I choose to. When you look at things entirely logically, and separate yourself from aimless, hyper-sensitive emotions - you're bulletproof.
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Re: Racism

Postby CrashBand » Feb 23rd, '13, 06:47

EminemBase wrote:All that matters is intent, and context.

Yeah, I get that this is practically it.

It's just being a cunt as opposed to Person X being racist.

Even if they aren't racist, I have a problem with people doing/saying racist things - unless it's irony/satire.
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Re: Racism

Postby CrashBand » Feb 23rd, '13, 06:51

And EmBase, are you against the proposition of a certain race/sex getting privileges if they have been subject to discrimination for many years?

For example, easier university entrance pathways.
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Re: Racism

Postby AbramIsaac » Feb 23rd, '13, 07:54

lmao
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Re: Racism

Postby Blu » Feb 23rd, '13, 07:57

Oh shiiit hahahaha
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Re: Racism

Postby EminemBase » Feb 23rd, '13, 08:08

Amadeo wrote:I personally think that's awesome, but only if the person uses the slur when they're losing the argument.

Black guy: The colors of the American flag are red, white and blue.

White guy: No they're not.

Black guy: Yes, they are. Demonstrable fact. Look it up on Google Images.

White guy: Oh. Well, you're a n*gger.


LMAO.

Yeah, that's ironic as Cash was saying though. That's fucking funny.

Only an idiot would see that as a racist - as the humour isn't coming from the word itself, it's the fact it's used in such an off-hand, casual and defensive manner in response to being proven wrong. Has nothing to do with race itself, it's total irony, and fucking funny.
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Re: Racism

Postby EminemBase » Feb 23rd, '13, 08:19

CrashBand wrote:And EmBase, are you against the proposition of a certain race/sex getting privileges if they have been subject to discrimination for many years?

For example, easier university entrance pathways.


Absolutely I am.

It's with the best intentions to put things on an equal playing field, but in doing that, you're by definition creating an UNequal playing field. And justifying it by saying 'yes but look at the history' is simply playing tit-for-tat, and we'll NEVER have 'rights equality' if we continue to try and make up, compensate for or look back to what has been or what may be.

Because let's say you have 100 years of positive, extra-rights for women, black people, gay people etc. to try and 'boost the equality / fairness', what happens then? there will be an imbalance the other way and then all non-those-people will have to be accounted for... lmao, it's a revolving door.

But the very ethics and logic of it, makes no sense.

By giving a special privilege, even with good intentions on 'making up for the past', you are still defining that person and personS by their race, sex, sexual-orientation therefore still seeing those factors as justifiable factors for judgement. So that's not progression, that's just grovelling, that's a misguided mindset which fails to see all people as equal, it just aims to repent.

You're also tying in the history of... racist white people, to CURRENT white people. And you're tying in the history of racial injustice to CURRENT black, hispanic or whoever, which is simply unethical. White people of today did not take part in slavery and black people of today did not go through it. Men of today had no hand in the sexist agendas of the past and to tie a history to modern humans of any kind IS racist, and it IS sexist. It's saying 'you are this' or 'you are connected to this', because you're white or because you're a male. it's a failure to progress in thinking.

Imagine also if a woman gets given a job over a man who is better than her, PURELY for the fact they have to fill an equality agenda and think the woman should be given a chance over the man, who IS better qualified. Like it or not, THAT IS SEXISM. It's with a positive intent, but it's sexism, and not progressive or a solution to anything. By this happening, a modern man who had no hand in the prior sexist mindset of the ages is being denied an opportunity because he is a man.

What needs to happen is that we don't see these factors at all. The point of seeing all as equal is to essentially ignore the concepts of sex, race, age and physical ability (within reason) in order to only judge on a person's capability; mentally and emotionally. Which ironically is still not 'all is equal' (and this is a stupid mindset), because we all have defining MENTAL factors which make us inequal, mismatched such as intelligence, emotional capability and so on...

But even so, the aim is to judge on the person, not racial or gender characteristics, are you doing that if you make a positive discrimination for a black person, or a woman? no, you're providing a privileged opportunity and denying that opportunity to someone not of that status who had no hand (like that would even matter) in the prior tension and discrimination.

This thinking is very flawed, and childish. It's a tit-for-tat game, not progression.

It still involves us defining each other by sex or race and using it to assign privilege.

The rules need to be the same for everybody, and we need to stop talking about these factors as defining factors or factors of judgement. If X group has had it bad in the past, okay... but why are we still tying it to X group if that is not the case now? are the rights the same for X group now? if so, things are fair now. The rules to the game are far, so EXTRA should not be given. Because a black person born today with the same rights is not further down the ladder, they have the same opportunities, if they don't then we need to do our best to make them the same. But not do our best to give EXTRA, that kind of thinking will result in a never-ending tit-for-tat mentality.
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Re: Racism

Postby CrashBand » Feb 23rd, '13, 09:10

Amadeo wrote:I personally think that's awesome, but only if the person uses the slur when they're losing the argument.

Black guy: The colors of the American flag are red, white and blue.

White guy: No they're not.

Black guy: Yes, they are. Demonstrable fact. Look it up on Google Images.

White guy: Oh. Well, you're a n*gger.

Did anybody else read that using Louis CK's voice/delivery?
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Re: Racism

Postby iHeart » Feb 24th, '13, 16:16

EminemBase wrote:
SliK wrote:Well said, EmBase.

I was having this argument with someone in real life and she was arguing that someone who was truly not a racist wouldn't even have those racist thoughts. She said "I've never felt the need to bring race into an argument" (and lets face it, she is the benchmark of perfection :shakehead:).

I don't think it's unnatural to think those things sometimes, I do think it makes you an asshole if you say them, despite whether or not it is technically racist.


Was she black though? Because all blacks are stupid.

Only thing I despise more than a racist is a black person. :8)


Lmfao!
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Re: Racism

Postby iHeart » Feb 24th, '13, 16:33

I think the term "N_gga" whether used in jest or not could be offensive to some due to it's nature; an insult that was directed once solely towards black people as an inferior race.
It's like saying "stop being a bitch" or "you hit like a woman" with the intention of belittling another by correspondence of a certain type of human, woman, race etc... as in your mind...somewhere back there in your subconscious, you believe that inferiority is linked to that particular word.

Your fundamental intentions may not have been racist, but you cannot escape the correlation set in your mind between the word and it's meaning.

Having said this, I don't believe that humans should be given apologetic extras for not being white or male. But it's almost too little too late, the seeds have been planted, we can give these words little weight & depth by using them comically, not everyone is as humorous and I guess the question of ethics comes to play here.
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Re: Racism

Postby Devil'sAdvocate » Mar 5th, '13, 18:34

Agreed,that is no where near Racism.
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Re: Racism

Postby Trimss » Mar 5th, '13, 21:35

Amadeo wrote:I personally think that's awesome, but only if the person uses the slur when they're losing the argument.

Black guy: The colors of the American flag are red, white and blue.

White guy: No they're not.

Black guy: Yes, they are. Demonstrable fact. Look it up on Google Images.

White guy: Oh. Well, you're a n*gger.


LOL. I always do this kind of shit. :laughing:
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Re: Racism

Postby ilovebender.com » Apr 11th, '13, 06:57

It's ugly, it's out there, many have different ways of dealing with it.

I'm all like, whatever, fuck you too, and I don't care what you are.

But that's me. Well... A part of me you see.

I'm all like... It's 2013, c'mon already!

I don't believe, again, this is me -- In shying around it, being too politically correct... I think we should just love the skin we're in, and **** off to anyone who tells you different. -I guess. I don't like racism or people thinking I'm racist. Sure, I've used racist language, but, does that make me a racist?

I'd believe them except irl, all I know is Black chicks and Asian chicks and Mixed Race chicks too... and guys. I love Thornton Heath, because it's home, not because it's like that. The fact that it's like that 'diverse' just makes my white arse lucky.
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