What is the evolutionary benefit of consciousness

[Elision]

I'd imagine the evolutionary benefit is the conscious feedback of information.

But we're not just talking about human evolution. What you're saying doesn't apply to all forms of nature. He was asking how consciousness and it's free will are beneficial towards universal evolution.

Also, I may have misread you, but our technology is a totally different entity separate from us (for now). It's what the universe required human beings for. It's the next step in nature, that will soon take over as the dominant force. I'm sure you're familiar with Ray Kurzweil - if you haven't seen the Transcendent Man documentary it's currently on netflix and definitely worth checking out. It focuses specifically on how we as a species are soon to become one with our technology.

[EminemBase]

I'd imagine the evolutionary benefit is the conscious feedback of information.

But we're not just talking about human evolution. What you're saying doesn't apply to all forms of nature. He was asking how consciousness and it's free will are beneficial towards universal evolution.

Who said I was just talking about human evolution?

I'm talking about evolution by natural selection, we are a result of that, as are all species.

So given that consciousness is a fundamentally prominent part of the human brain and the result of a very large brain; there is probably a benefit to it else it probably wouldn't persist and the benefits which I can work out are our ability to consider new information and to know that we (and therefore others) exist, which is the basis for empathy; which is the basis for communication, collaboration and unity, which are the three pillars of human advantage in comparison to other species, and probably replaced our need for physical attributes, considering we can and create to suit.

Also, free will?

Consciousness is the last stage in the process, it is the observation of thoughts that have already happened in your brain, there is no 'conscious free will', the conscious part of your brain is not controlling anything and there has been experiments which flat-out prove this as a fact.

Other parts of your brain decide on things before you are consciously aware of it, but due to the fact consciousness is all we know - when we become AWARE of the choice, it feels as if we are MAKING the choice, when in fact the choice has been made, and we now become aware and 'choose it'.

Consciousness is not a tool of free will, it's simply the awareness that we exist, the ability to consider new and changing information around us, and the ability to empathize by way of upshot of knowing we exist and feel X therefore others must/probably also feel X and so we misfire self-directed feelings of pity and sorrow towards others, when in reality we're really just feeling this for ourselves. The term 'conscious choice' is an oxymoron, because no choice happens consciously.

[Elision]

Who said I was just talking about human evolution?

All but your 3rd paragraph is directly referring to our species.

I'm talking about evolution by natural selection, we are a result of that, as are all species.

And that's fine, but again we're talking about consciousness' role within universal evolution. Not just speciated life.

So given that consciousness is a fundamentally prominent part of the human brain and the result of a very large brain; there is probably a benefit to it else it probably wouldn't persist and the benefits which I can work out are our ability to consider new information and to know that we (and therefore others) exist, which is the basis for empathy; which is the basis for communication, collaboration and unity, which are the three pillars of human advantage in comparison to other species, and probably replaced our need for physical attributes, considering we can and create to suit.

Consciousness is not the result of a large brain. Almost every perceptive species is conscious to an extent. Even having the most primal desire such as hunger is by definition a conscious instinct. Consciousness comes before instinct, meaning it doesn't have a choice whether or not to exist, regardless of it's benefits.

We're also not the only species with communication, collaboration and unity all in one package. We're just the only ones to apply to advanced technologies.

Consciousness is the last stage in the process, it is the observation of thoughts that have already happened in your brain, there is no 'conscious free will', the conscious part of your brain is not controlling anything and there has been experiments which flat-out prove this as a fact.

Consciousness is not the observation of your own thoughts. It's awareness period. And the conscious parts are influencing quite a bit -- I can't find anything on google to suggest otherwise.

Other parts of your brain decide on things before you are consciously aware of it, but due to the fact consciousness is all we know - when we become AWARE of the choice, it feels as if we are MAKING the choice, when in fact the choice has been made, and we now become aware and 'choose it'.

Of course all parts of the brain aren't conscious. But what you're failing to consider is that both the conscious and unconscious parts communicate both ways, regardless of which comes first. That's just the brain doing it's thing. If you were aware of every piece of information that went into every decision you made, your head would explode before even making the decision to begin with. But it's still us making the decision, it still just comes down to what we chose to refer to when we say "me".

Consciousness is not a tool of free will, it's simply the awareness that we exist, the ability to consider new and changing information around us, and the ability to empathize by way of upshot of knowing we exist and feel X therefore others must/probably also feel X and so we misfire self-directed feelings of pity and sorrow towards others, when in reality we're really just feeling this for ourselves.

Consciousness isn't self awareness, nor is it the ability to take in new information or the ability to empathize. These are species-specific traits that don't apply to everything that is conscious. Consciousness is simply awareness and nothing more.

[CrashBand]

Some biologists believe that free will is an illusion. (We don't make the decisions, though we are aware of the paths we could take.)

There's a problem with the semantics. No one argues that we don't make decisions. They argue the don't have conscious control over these decisions.

As for an evolutionary benefit for having the illusion, well, I'm just speculating, but it adds moral responsibility, the likelihood of an emotional reaction.

People will be more likely to react about something and then adapt.

[CrashBand]

Also, free will as an illusion might not have any major benefits but could just be a side effect of having consciousness (which has heaps of evolutionary benefit).

As EmBase has explained, consciousness is us being aware etc etc, therefore it seems like we have the traditional definition of free will.

[Willy]

Some biologists believe that free will is an illusion. (We don't make the decisions, though we are aware of the paths we could take.)

There's a problem with the semantics. No one argues that we don't make decisions. They argue the don't have conscious control over these decisions.

As for an evolutionary benefit for having the illusion, well, I'm just speculating, but it adds moral responsibility, the likelihood of an emotional reaction.

People will be more likely to react about something and then adapt.

I shouldn't have even phrased it like that. From a deterministic standpoint, there are no choices. Everything is cause and effect...so what the fuq does consciousness do if it's not for exerting our free will?

ps. I'm not trying to be obstinate...just trying to understand somethin'.

[Elision]

what the fuq does consciousness do if it's not for exerting our free will?

ps. I'm not trying to be obstinate...just trying to understand somethin'.

I already posted man: http://youtu.be/NCaK35DQ4uk?t=9m53s
(watch from 7:17 for full context)

[CrashBand]

Determinism =/= fatalism, it's a common misconception. I don't know why you are saying they're no choices. You make choices every day. But you didn't intend the intentions, if that makes sense. You don't control the random brain processes in your brain that make you decide to join an Eminem forum rather than not join it.

Me and Embase already listed a bunch of evolutionary benefits for consciousness?

[Willy]

Determinism =/= fatalism, it's a common misconception. I don't know why you are saying they're no choices. You make choices every day. But you didn't intend the intentions, if that makes sense. You don't control the random brain processes in your brain that make you decide to join an Eminem forum rather than not join it.

Me and Embase already listed a bunch of evolutionary benefits for consciousness?

Maybe my background in Computer Science is leading me astray...but check it:

If we are insentient robots, then consciousness is impossible as well as free will. The brain processes that seemingly 'make decisions' are equatable to computer programs... and awareness is never going to emerge out of a computer program - no matter how complex it gets. For example:

function BrainProcess(int a){
if (a > 3){
PunchCrashbandInTheFace();
} else {
HugCrashband();
}
}

This isn't a decision. The function BrainProcess is taking an integer as the variable 'a', and depending on the value of 'a', is going to execute either PunchCrashbandInTheFace() or HugCrashband(). No matter how many variables or how much complexity you add to this function, awareness isn't just going to pop out... You could tinker with it for a few million years and it wouldn't be any closer to being conscious than it is right now. And trust nigga, we could add a lot of complexity. With billions of those brain processes and a few million years.. we could create a robot with:

-speech/sonic + optic recognition
-the ability to move
-the ability to react to any stimuli
-a growing list of experiences which influence actions
-a pee-pee
-a dictionary of instructions used to create offspring via usb stick (see above)

So... that's option A. We're robots. Robots equipped with pee-pees and the illusion of awareness.

Fuck. Ight, so I just found a few articles that address my concerns about consciousness:

http://www.samharris.org/blog/item/the- ... sciousness
http://www.samharris.org/blog/item/the- ... ousness-ii

Apparently the emergence of consciousness in biological organisms is a currently unexplained miracle...maybe I was taking determinists too literally when they said we were biological robots, lawl.

[CrashBand]

I don't really know that computer jargon, but, I don't really know why awareness will never pop out.

I agree that "total free control" won't pop out, as it's incoherent.

Take any decision you want, you can't consciously influence the brain processes that make the decision. But we feel we do, as we are aware that we made the decision and that it was possible to have made a different decision.

[Elision]

Willy have you looked into the work of Ray Kurzweil?

edit: here's a good one if you haven't http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zihTWh5i2C4

[classthe_king]

You've over thinking it. Consciousness evolved because of humanities need to solve problems/think critically in order to survive. As our brains became bigger and bigger we became more and more aware.

[CrashBand]

Do you still believe in free will m8?

[classthe_king]

Do you still believe in free will m8?

No, I actually got around to watching that Sam Harris video and did everything I could to come up with an argument for free will but once I saw that everyone failed I just succumbed and came to the conclusion that we don't have free will. I don't think the arguments that you were using on me before were as convincing as the ones that ended up convincing me.

[CrashBand]

Yeah, that was pretty much when I was first researching it.

I understand it a lot better now.